Skip to main content

tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  February 1, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm EST

4:00 pm
what they have suffered and the worries about what tomorrow will bring to them and to their people and to their families and to the fate of this country. the last events in egypt has been imposed on every one of us as a leadership and the people to chose between stability or chaos. has imposed new conditions on the country, has imposed new and different egyptian reality that we and our armed forces has to deal with wisdom and care for egypt and its people. dear citizens, i have formed a
4:01 pm
new cabinet with new orders. to meet the demands and meet the request and i have ordered the vice president to talk with all the political parties around everything about all political issues, and for political reform and democratic and for what's the constitutional needs for achieving this legitimate defense and restore order and security and calm. but there is other political parties who refuse to engage in dialogue, sticking to their own agenda, and without taking into consideration to the current situation in egypt and its people. and due to this rejection for
4:02 pm
dialogue and calm still exists, so now i talk to the people directly with its farmers and its workers, with the muslims and christians, with the older and the youth and for every egyptian in the farm, in the city and old demands. i was never seeking authority one day and people know what we want to rule and circumstances that i took responsibility in and what i had presented to my country in the war and peace and as a man in the armed forces and it's not me to give authority or give my responsibility.
4:03 pm
my main responsibility is to restore order and stability to the country. easily transition in a peaceful atmosphere to protect the egyptians and to allow whoever the people will elect in the next presidential election. and i would say very clearly, and regardless of the current situation, i did not intend to run for another term. i had spent all my life to serve the egyptian and egypt, but i care that i will finish my work, serving my country, guarantee everything goes smoothly as
4:04 pm
egypt -- i would say to everyone clearly that i will work on the remaining months in my term so they will take them, major steps to guarantee that peaceful transition for power as i have my constitutional power. i call the parliament to discuss the change of article 76 and 77 from the constitution which can change the constitution to allow the presidential election and to determine for the election and this parliament can discuss this right now and what is linked to
4:05 pm
legislative amendments and what linked to the people and to guarantee that all political parties will participate in this, so i call the parliament to commit it to the judicial system for the appeals for the latest election without any delay, please. i will continue to ensure that the government are carrying out the new orders, to carry out the new legislative reforms. to meet the people's demands and the political reforms and the economic reforms and the social reforms and to give more opportunities for employment and to fight the war on poverty and in the same context i authorize
4:06 pm
the police department to look forward to continued serving and protecting the citizens with integrity, with respect and with all respect to the riots and to their freedom and to the dignity. and i also want to call for the old authority to take necessary steps to follow the corrupters and to open investigation with those who are responsible in what has happened last week and those who are looting and burn and horrified the security people. this is my vow to my people and in the remaining months. i call god to help me comply and to fulfill so i can end my
4:07 pm
serving time which can satisfy god and my citizen. my citizen. egypt will exit this current situation stronger. more stability, egypt will exit with its own people, but more powerful and more aware that they will achieve what they are asking for. hosni mubarak is talking to you right now is honored to of years that he served for the egyptian people. this great country is my country. as your country and as the country of every egyptian in it, i have lived and i fought the
4:08 pm
war and defended its land, and i defended its sovereignty and on its land i will die and history will judge me and others what we have did or achieved. the country will remain but people are young. but egypt, honorable egypt is eternity, will go from -- we have to achieve the egyptian with proud and dignity generation after generation. may god protect this country and its people and peace among all of you. history in real-time as the egyptian president just informed not only his own country but the world that his intention is not to run in the next presidential election. however, it does appear his
4:09 pm
intention is to remain in the government. he says he'll lead a transition as you likely know. he's already appoint ad new cabinet and indicated in that speech directly that he will directly engaging negotiations ranging from everything to rooting out corruption to making employment reforms. bear in mind egypt a long time u.s. ally and a central pillar in american policy and peace in the middle east going back decades now, a nation also that suffers from a population for which 40% of them live on $2 a day. 47% of them report consistently being asked to pay government bribes. and two-thirds of them are under the age of 30. the big question, will those who have mobbed the streets of egypt tolerate his defire maintasire his presidency. how will this plan go over, ron?
4:10 pm
>> reporter: i think it's going to be very disappointing to people out on the streets, dylan. i think it's going to be very disappointing, even before the president took to the tv screens tonight, people were saying and the opposition leaders were saying they only wanted to hear thatters going to lea-- that hes going to leave the country. what he said was proud and honorable and you expect that for a man who was a former military general and led this country for the past 30 years or so. the reaction will be more people taking the street. the plan at the end of this march today was to gather, again, on friday, after friday prayers, a sacred day in the muslim world. that's what they are gearing up to. here mr. mubarak laid out every promise you would imagine a politician in his position would make. more jobs, reforms. even seemed to be hintsing he might have early elections.
4:11 pm
changing the constitution. but i think that people are not going bit, they are not going to believe it. they are still going to push, push, push and there was a feeling here in the streets and amongst the opposition leaders that they were making progress, they were chipping away as mr. mubarak was making these gestures, appointing a vice president, shuffling his government so forth and so on. there was so much passion out there. the expectations today were so high in liberation square that this was going to be a new day. the day for this country. that i think you're just going to hear disappointment in the streets tomorrow. >> ron, stay with me. savannah guthrie at the white house. is the white house anticipating what ron just described which is a characterization of mubarak's statement as inadequate or grossly inadequate in the eyes of the protesters? >> reporter: well, i think they will be watching to see how the protesters react. i just asked for a response from the white house. haven't gotten it back yet in
4:12 pm
terms of what they thought of the statement from mubarak. as you know we've been reporting today that the retired state department diplomat bore a message from president obama telling hip it was time to step down. so in terms of that message, obviously, mubarak said he doesn't intend to run again and as ron has been reporting from the ground there in cairo that may not be satisfier to to those protesters on the street who want him to step down immediately and want him gone from the country. as i understand mr. mubarak said he intends to die in egypt. we're waiting to see if the president will come out and make any sort of statement on camera here from the white house. as you know as mubarak gave the statement so late in the night from egypt president obama came out afterward. i'm waiting to hear back what the president's plans are. at 3:30 the president convened be a meeting of his national security team in the situation room and presumably they watched
4:13 pm
this statement as it happened as we all did. >> brian williams is live in cairo. brian, do you have any sense of what tomorrow holds? >> reporter: well, dylan, first of all i'm joined by richard engel here in care jobs our chief foreign correspondent, and the general view all day from the first reports that this is what will happen, this taped address that's been kicking around state television before they aired it, there's no way compared to the crowd we saw down at that demonstration today that this would be enough. this is not a crowd saying look take your time, make sure all your affairs are in order and when september comes around that feels like a comfortable time four to leave. and richard, i presume you would encourage that? >> reporter: the protesters we spoke to knew this was coming and they said this is totally
4:14 pm
unacceptable. they want mubarak to step down now and leave the country. it's not even enough for him to retire. what mubarak said he's not going to run for the next elections. he's 82 years old. he is -- the terms here are six years long. so for a lot of egyptians to hear an 82-year-old man who is almost 83 just say that in september he won't run for another six year term is hardly much of a concession. >> while some of this was not just about hosni mubarak, what was about the egyptians feeling, no one asked them if they wanted a dynasty, feeling the fix was in for his son. again, there's a new card being played by the mubarak government seemingly every day. and there are more certainly to be played. but, this is not going to be enough for the protesters whose tone today almost was this is already a done deal. >> thank you, brian.
4:15 pm
this has incredible ripples to the middle east. incredible implications for the american government who has support this man for decades. give us a sense mubarak is gone one way or another how that ripple plays out. >> first of all he's a friend of the united states. i was there in 1981 when he first arrived and saved our bacon. oil say that again. sadat was assassinated by the muslim brotherhood. we were looking for a friend to keep our relationship with israel which was peaceful and he was there. he's been there 30 years way too long. the way we handle this very important not that we just handle it. it's not our job to get rid of mubarak. it's their job to hush him out. i heard a guy who is proud of his position who is saying it's a choice between stability and kay oh, him being stability, chaosing the alternative. i heard guy who said i am the armed forces. he's going on the loyalty of the armed force. he's saying i'm going to put the
4:16 pm
police back strinin the streets protect property. something is coming here. knees he has to get strong stay. so to stay he needs the armed force behind him and needs the police to clean up the streets. etalking about some kind of investigations. the way i heard it, i think he's out to investigate the people that cause this protest. i think he's being very aggressive. he knows he has to fight to say. i don't hear anything more than that. i hear a guy that is very much like charles de gaulle. we have a bad history with these leaders. we pulled the rug out of the president in vietnam. we didn't treat him too well as an ally. the shah became a flying dumpman. people don't mind being used. they mind being discard. although i'm not using that favoritable to him, mike huckabee said it right, all our
4:17 pm
friends is watching this and wondering when their turn is coming. we have to hold a relationship with any of our allies. we better watch the way we handle this. thipts be the people of egypt that push this guy out. so when he says i'm dying here, well he may be very fortunate to get asylum. what we may end up doing is give him asylum. >> andrea, when you go back into the military invasions in iraq, american foreign policy in middle east in general over the past decade and all the talk about the spread of democracy that might be triggered by a democratic iraq, for instance, tell me about the irony of watching it now emerge without military conflict potentially in egypt and the implications not just of potential change in power in egypt and. emergence of a democracy there, but what we're seeing in the wave across north africa that may well continue? >> the ironies are
4:18 pm
extraordinary. we don't know how this is going to evolve, whether we'll remain peaceful and what will succeed this. it's very clear that he needs to go beyond the statement that president mubarak gave today. in fact, what i am told is that frank wisner delivered friend to flaentsd why t and that's why it was a very smart move by this white house. the message delivered to him was it's not enough to say you're not going to run again. you have to realize that your tenure is over. your time super. that message was received only in part as you and chris have been discussing and that isn't going to be enough. white house be officials and other be officials were saying earlier this is nuclear program the street and the people of the street as richard engel and brian williams are reporting are not going accept this as sufficient. mubarak has moved a bit but the
4:19 pm
army may have to facilitate his departure because it may not be safe for him to stay beyond tomorrow, beyond friday. that was the informal deadline that the street protesters were delivering. i think that perhaps this is one of those stages where mubarak will receive it bit by bit and eventually will become clear to him. >> what do you see more broadly as the implications of the weakening of the dictators, whether they are u.s. ally dictators or not in the middle east? >> reporter: well you already see that there are protests planned for sirrya. king abdullah in jordan had to shake up his cabinet today. that's an attempt to preempt something more dramatic from happening. we think the saudis are fairly secure but they don't feel secure. leon panetta the cia director is in bahrain today and we have to check his travels are not reported, are not publicized but
4:20 pm
he may be doing some hand holding around region and warning these leaders that they have to democratize, they have to permit more political foretheir people. the message they may receive too much political power was distributed and they now need to clamp down. >> we'll take a momentary break. we're back as you can see with full team coverage here. again andrea mitchell, brian williams and richard engel in cairo, chris matthews preparing for a special series of reporting this evening on his program. if you missed it, again, the news of the day, the president of egypt, hosni mubarak, indicating that he intends to remain in power through the next presidential election saying he'll not run at that time, but as reported byron allen, brian williams, richard engel and so many others those people there want more than his indication he won't run a few floss now, they
4:21 pm
want him gone now. this story continues. nbc team coverage on msnbc continues after this. so you have five brothers. tough being the only girl. aw, there's the man of the house. who's this ? this is rufus. hey, rufus. he's actually pretty talented. you wanna see him do a trick ? ok. hey rufus. who do we love ? we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. yes, yes. you really love your bank don't you. ally bank customers love our 24/7 customer care that allows you to talk to a real person anytime. ally. do you love your bank ?
4:22 pm
♪ now the healing power of touch just got more powerful. introducing precise from the makers of tylenol. precise pain relieving heat patch activates sensory receptors. it helps block pain signals for deep penetrating relief you can feel precisely where you need it most. precise. only from the makers of tylenol. precise. seven years ago, i had this idea. to make baby food the way moms would. happybaby strives to make the best organic baby food. in a business like ours, personal connections are so important. we use our american express open gold card to further those connections. last year we took dozens of trips using membership rewards points to meet with the farmers that grow our sweet potatoes and merchants that sell our product.
4:23 pm
we've gone from being in 5 stores to 7,500. booming is using points to make connections that grow your business.
4:24 pm
moments ago egypt's president hosni mubarak saying he'll remain in power at least through the presidential election in september. a statement that's viewed as inadequate. brian williams, richard engel and ron allen. joining us now, maidle eastern
4:25 pm
expert from london school of economics and a former state department official now with the center for american progress. and your thoughts houston this will play tomorrow? >> two most important lies of the speech was he is a man of the land and he will die on the land. it's a speech of defiance. mubarak is not going to go anywhere. this is going to prove to be a very prolonged crisis. next few days will be very pivotal and dangerous. mubarak is putting the authority and the unity of the army at risk. make no doubts about it, mubarak will fight to the end and his last two lines, this is a defiant speech. he wanted to remind egyptians of his legacy, that he fought for egypt, he worked for egypt and he'll die on egyptian land. >> brian, is there anything that u.s. foreign policy can do to influence what happens over the next 48 hours?
4:26 pm
>> i think they will continue this diplomatic full-court press which has been ongoing for the last week. i suspect president mubarak's statement won't satisfy the white house because i think they have been pretty clear about an orderly transition and i agree with what was said. i think this will escalate tensions on the ground. nowhere near answers the mail in terms of what the protesters want. to be the very modest steps he's talking about, you know, his hand pick parliament, slight amendments to article 76 to the constitution and he didn't say anything about the emergency law, all of these things sent a message of i intend to stick around and try to control this process and whoever follows me after. >> the key headline was the military indicating before these protests began that they would not pull the trigger. do we have any indication as to whether that will change and, in fact, whether mubarak even has the authority to get them to
4:27 pm
change that statement? >> obviously the army has already made up its mind. the army will not shed egyptian blood. the army has already tipped the balance in favor of the opposition and the protesters. the question is will the army find an honorable way, an exit for hosni mubarak. how will the army find a face saving formula for mubarak? mubarak is a great liability not just for egypt but even for the institution of the army. the question is will the senior echelon of the army find a way to nudge mubarak out of his defiant position. it's a very, very difficult position for the army. remember, hosni mubarak is an integral part of the institution of the army. he was the head of the force in 1973, the most celebrated war between egypt and israel. the military and egyptian army cannot do for hosni mubarak what
4:28 pm
the tunisian army did for zine el abidine ben ali. this is the predictament of the army. the wishes and the aspiration of the people. if there's one fundamental goal that y unites all egyptians it' the removal of hosni mubarak and the toppling of his regime. that's why this crisis will be prolonged and the next few days will be very pivotal, very risky, very dangerous for egypt and the institution of the army. i'm extremely worried about the unity and authority of the army at this particular stage. >> brian, what are the implications beyond egypt, relative to stability in saudi arabia, perhaps the most central u.s. ally in the region? israel. central in this insofar as egypt has been a critical and long time american ally in dealing
4:29 pm
with the stability in that particular relationship. can you even anticipate the ripples of a power change or power exist like this in egypt? >> well, first, there's a recognition here in washington that a prolonged instability inside of egypt will have major implications in that country and then possibly spill over. and what president mubarak has done here tonight has said i'll prolong this instability. it won't seem to, i think, answer the demands of the protesters. i think in these other countries we got to watch carefully what happens. as you noted jordan just shifted its government today. there's deep pressing economic and social concerns in places like saudi arabia. and i think we're really sitting on a tinder box here and president mubarak is playing with fire if he seeks to dig in his heels here because could it have very negative implications not loin for his country but for the broader region opinion. >> thank you so much for the analysis and the information. up next we take a momentary
4:30 pm
break from the political storm in the middle east to the winter storm that is ravaging our own continent. an update on the storms after this. you need website development, 1-on-1 marketing advice, search-engine marketing, and direct mail. yellowbook's got all of that. yellowbook360's got a whole spectrum of tools. tools that are going to spark some real connections. visit and go beyond yellow.
4:31 pm
[ malhis day starts thwith his arthritis pain.. that's breakfast with two pills. the morning is over, it's time for two more pills. the day marches on, back to more pills. and when he's finally home... but hang on; just two aleve can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is steven, who chose aleve and 2 pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. you should get some custom fit orthotics.
4:32 pm
dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic center. it recommends the custom fit orthotic that's best for your feet. and footcare scientists are behind it. you'll get immediate comfort... ... and, you could save a couple hundred bucks. for locations see
4:33 pm
welcome back. the big domestic story of the day america on ice, on. >> even suffering sleet. right now a monster mix, a winter weather engulfing our country. blizzard warnings in effect in nine different states with as many as 100 million americans potentially affected by this massive storm. that's a third of the american population. roughly 6,000 flights have already been cancelled. the number climbing throughout the day as residents rush to gather last minute supplies. the roads look more like skating rinks in many states. the storm currently blanketing 2100 miles and headed for the
4:34 pm
northeast. we go now to st. louis for the latest. i had, john. >> reporter: here here in st. louis. this is trereally the dividing e between heavy snow in the north and sleet and freezing rain in the south. you go just ten miles or is to the west and you got white out conditions, you got snow falling at a clip of about two inches an hour. you keep going further west to jefferson city, parts of i-70 closed for much of the day. that's what's coming on its way here. we're about to hit a little gap of dry air here in st. louis. that will stop precipitation for a while but then it will pick up again tonight with heavy snow overnight perhaps as much as 8 to 12 inches here in st. louis. the thing they are really worried about is that last night and today you had a lot of freezing rain, you had a lot of
4:35 pm
sleet. so there's a nice layer of ice under all of this. you get more snow on top of that. you get heavy winds tomorrow. they are worried about tree limbs coming down, snapping power lines. and creating massive power outages in sub freezing weather. the local power utility has 500 linemen standing by ready to snap into action if that does happen but that's what they are bracing for here in st. louis. >> we'll take a momentary break. we're back with more on today's breaking news out of egypt as what is perceived to be an inadequate response from the president of that country saying he'll not step down immediately but instead will remain at least through the september presidential election. what happens next? what does the united states government do? what can it do? what should it do? plus, other news of this day including round two of the health care debate. both parties ready for a newing
4:36 pm
fight as the supreme court prepares to lend a knock out blow at some point in the future. the e team next. get 'em boys! ♪ ♪ [ all slurping ] [ whistle blows ] winner! come on ref! mcenroe?! mcenroe?! mcenroe?! i thought you retired? this isn't the end! ♪ somewhere in america... there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again. somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day
4:37 pm
answering them. siemens. answers. if anything, i thought i'd get hit by a bus, but not a heart. all of a sudden, it's like an earthquake going off in your body. my doctor put me on an aspirin regimen to help protect my life. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone. so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. to my friends, i say, you know, check with your doctor, 'cause it can happen to anybody. [ male announcer ] be ready if a heart attack strikes. donate $5 to womenheart at, and we'll send you this bayer aspirin pill tote. donate $5 to womenheart at, can a trading site help make you a sharper trader? mine can. td ameritrade can. they've got trading specialists i can call for help. and paper trading. free practice trading that helps me hone my technique. complex options. and free tutorials. online or in person. can a trading site really make a difference? if it can't, why are you trading there? number one in online equity trades: td ameritrade. trade commission-free for 30 days,
4:38 pm
plus get up to $500 when you open an account. so i wasn't playing much of a role in my own life. but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now, i've got the leading part. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator, working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, take the lead. ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free
4:39 pm
and save on refills at we're back, continuing our coverage of breaking news. dramatic events unfolding in egypt as the president there, hosni mubarak saying he does intend to remain in power through the presidential election in september. that a view that is widely seen
4:40 pm
as inadequate, at least as expressed through the rhetoric of the protesters that have gathered by hundreds of thousands in egypt. what we mains to be seen now, of course, is what happens over the next couple of days. as of today the military in egypt saying they will not use live ammunition on the crowds. that will become something called into question for sure over the next couple of days. i want to bring in our political panel, karen finny, republican analyst susan delpersio and washington insider, jimmy williams. increased volatility throughout the motivate is in the offing for months if not years to come. >> we're looking at years to come. whether we see something happen in saudi arabia, syria, we now have to be ready for it. and it could fall out any which way at any given time. foreign policy becomes a big
4:41 pm
issue right now and more so than what the president wants it to be. but it's going to be on everyone's mind. >> wasn't this the intent of the iraq war to create a disruption to create a cascade of democracy and liberation across the middle east. whether it's because we invade iraq or because food prices got too high in egypt, were we not prepared for a cascade of democracy across the middle east that we thought we would be capitalizing ten years ago? >> in theory yes that's what the iraq war was supposed to be about. that's not what it was about. in this instance the administration is the trying to be prepared because as susan points out everybody is gaming out. is it jordan, syria, what happens next. that's part of the reason why you're seeing the president being very careful and the secretary of state over the last several days showing support for the people and not overtly pushing out mubarak, although i would imagine the private conversations have been a lot tougher. >> what are you looking at me
4:42 pm
for? look mubarak is toast, he's out. >> let's accept that. let's accept mubarak is toast. let's accept some level of volatility is emerging, has emerged already in the middle east. that the united states is on the wrong side of a lot of these prescription in terms of the current optics, in other words i'm not saying that's my opinion, i'm saying that if you look at the people in the streets of egypt that the label on the tear gas canister hats being shot at them is made in the usa, jamestown, pennsylvania the manufacturer of the gun pointed in their direction is an american gun and the maker of the fighter airplane that's zooming over their head in cairo is an american airplane. how does america deal with the new diplomatic reality of people in the street who don't have a favorable relationship of our government as we would like to believe. >> two thoughts. first today's friend is tomorrow's enemy and vice versa. let's be honest about that. not everybody in the middle east has always been our friend and
4:43 pm
we will have enemies and we'll have friends. the second thought, listen, this is dangerous stuff. if i'm the king of morocco or saudi arabia and i'm looking at the people out there and they are hungry and they don't want to pay what you're demanding that they pay for bread and food and et cetera, et cetera. >> $2 add day. ron, what's going on? >> reporter: i think people to some extent are stunned. people are still trying to figure out what to do. people waving flags and yelling le leave, leave. several hundred people are camping out under some trees in the middle of the square. they say they will stay here until he leaves the country. on the other hand, on our way in some people in the square headed home, all feeling that we got the best we can oust this and we
4:44 pm
need to just patient and let this play itself out a little bit more. the bottom line is that this has always bean fairly loosely organized opposition. ordinary people from all walks of life. so i think you have a sense of where people are trying to figure out what to do now. they just don't know. remember we're in very unchartered territory here in this country. nobody expected it would happen so fast. they thought it with be the day. believe me, the bottom line is that a lot of people in this country are not happy, are very disappointed, didn't want to hear defiance, they wanted to hear the president resign and leave but clearly that's not going happen. >> thank you, ron. karen, you're nodding. >> i was just thinking as i was listening to president mubarak it was very clear what he was saying was not in any way shape or form going to pass muster with the crowd. they were clear the only thing that was suitable for him to be out now, done not in six months.
4:45 pm
what ron is saying is there doesn't seem to be a centralized place for this opposition. so, if we were to say, okay, we'll start negotiating or reaching out to whoever is coming in, who would that be? we don't know who that will be. >> the chances are you have to do it on twitter. you see democracy unfolding on twitter. you see foreign policy being devised based on what they see on twitter. this is moving so quickly and that's why i think the administration, frankly has done a great job in slowing things down because you don't know what you're going to face next. people don't know where to show up tomorrow or next week but more importantly people don't know where to go for food. they are having problems getting food and water in. they can't get money out. they need to start getting -- especially cairo back on track as a functioning city. >> not every country should be a democracy. remember, we had this debate. >> does the american government get to decide who is a democracy and who is not?
4:46 pm
>> no. >> who gets to decide. >> the 83 million people that live in egypt get to decide. i get this is urgent and it is. the end of the day i'm not defending mubarak by saying what he did was right but if mubarak were to step down and you're sitting next door or you're in tunisia or morocco or jordan, i would be scared to death. >> the interesting thing, and i'm interested in all three of your thoughts, tunisia, to your point, buses are running. water is running. schools are functioning. banks are open. restaurants are operating. cafes are full. zine el abidine ben ali is gone. it's only been a few weeks. but when you look at the post mortem in tunisia, at least from my perspective it's actually shockingly graceful insofar as
4:47 pm
the educational, utility, financial and security functions in that country are very much in tact and if you look at the nature of the protest today in cairo. no violence. people brought their children. people brought their families. the military didn't shoot. so i would also argue and this is my opinion that our conclusion that by definition that an overthrow of a government dictator by definition defaults to looting, chaos, murder and destruction i think is not a fair conclusion either. i'm not saying you guys are pushing that, ithat we don't kno know. there's a pathway of civil functionality after an event. >> it's absolutely possible. >>it's important that the egyptians do this on their own with no hint from the united states, no backing from the united states. because democracy is something you take. it can't be given to you. you have to go out and fight for it. that's what they are doing.
4:48 pm
>> is that the lesson of the iraq war? >> yes. how many years have we stopped fighting in iraq? >> mission accomplished. >> there's irony in that. tunisia, egypt responding internally to massive unemployment, massive corruption, spike in food prices. we devote billions to and our most admirable this cause of democracy in the middle east and you can't do it. >> one other point if we take a step back. it's fascinating to see the role technology, talking about twitter is playing in this revolution and that's been playing in revolutions. we saw this in this country in the immigration debates. kids went out and rallied using twitter and facebook to organize themselves. the first organized president who did such a good job with community organizing. this is his first international crisis based on similar ideas. >> the interesting thing going back to the founders of google, you hear the rhetoric of steve jobs and bill gates the whole
4:49 pm
argument going back for decades is that technology is the ultimate tool of democracy because it allows equal access to information. and i think what we're watching is a lot of that. >> does it give you a chance to stop, think and plot out. >> it those you're not alone. that's what was powerful in the presidential campaign, that's what's powerful in this revolution. these people don't have to be in the same place to be organized. >> and whether it's america or any other country to be for skeptical of the political rhetoric of your leaders who may be selling you things that aren't true. >> that never happens. >> a pleasure. nice to see you, susan, karen, jimmy. up next how a program supposedly to help homeowners is, in fact, helping them pushed into foreclosure. our week long series no way to live next.
4:50 pm
4:51 pm
4:52 pm
4:53 pm
we're backwith special series on the housing crisis, no way to live produced in collaboration with the "huffington post". all this week and yesterday we discuss the meltdown. today we talk about the government's response. hamp, it started in '09. setting guidelines and incentive payments for banks to modify mortgages. home owners complain the program doesn't work. light so as too often the homeowner pays the lower payment, is then told they don't qualify and that they are in arears because of the lower score. the bank is able to spread out the foreclosures, allowing them to continue to collect as many
4:54 pm
bonuses as possible without having to recognize the losses on the house. pretty clever, right? be officials at hamp said it was supposed to help 3 to 4 million home owners. the program hasn't done anything to support the banks as they look to distribute howhey foreclosure by extending people in this manipulative program. with us now are a couple that went up through hamp and then foreclosure. we're joined by "huffington post" author. tell us your experience. >> hi there. my experience is i first contacted chase in april '09, and they told me i was a perfect candidate for their new program that they were just starting the modifications. sent all my paper work. was contacted in june. and said that i qualified for the program for 60 to 90-day trial. made all the monthly trial
4:55 pm
payments. the payments went past the 90 days. we made trial payments until march of 2010, only to get a letter on march 19th stating we did not qualify and we owed all this money in arathearathers. this allows the banks to extends over time basically create duration is what it's called in the financial markets where you don't have to deal with all the houses at once, you basically tell people they qualify, they go to the lower payment and then when you want to take the house you retract the offer and screw them over in the process, wrecking their credit score. just how prevalent have you found this to be? >> what's amazing about their story is that it's not all that uncommon. the federal auditors of the program have said repeatedly this is something that can actually happen. either you'll waste money going
4:56 pm
after this trial modification that will never happen or you were never seriously delinquent in the first place. now you're losing your house. >> again, their story featured today prominently in arthur's coverage on the "huffington post". i want to keep you guys with me. i want to bring in the oregon senator. not only the proposal to deal with this but has been aggressive over the past few years in trying to prevent this from happening and senator we're glad to have you here. how thoroughly do you feel the federal government understands what the banks are doing to people. >> i'm not sure the administration has a real grip on it. i was encouraging president obama to address the wave of foreclosures and failures of the hamp program in the state of the union teen lay out a renewed effort to assist our families facing foreclosure. we didn't hear that in the state
4:57 pm
of the union and haven't heard an aggressive understanding of the problems in the program and that we can do much more, not just to fix the hamp program by ending the dual track, but we can do a lot more between moment families in trouble and foreclosure to try to have a win-win that keeps families in their homes, keeps children in the schools and stabilizes our communities. >> one of the more cynical sphe interpretations is it's working but working for the banks. the banks didn't want to foreclosure on a bunch of houses at once. i want allows them to effectively mislead people into lower payments so that then the bank can come back six, nine or 12 months later as josh rosner has suing geftd, take the house and distribute the risks so the banks can continue to collect their bonuses while spreading the foreclosures over multiple
4:58 pm
quarters. >> listen, the story you're describing, their experience, is very common. i just met a group of families out in oregon. many of them were talked to by their servicer who said, hey, why don't you try this program and they hadn't yet failed to make any payments. so they were -- the program was suggested. they were told they were good candidates. and then fees started to pile up. servicer stoorts make a lot of money on fees that they don't make when a family makes their payments. there isn't the full commitment to actually do the modification that would assist the family in the end. i think we have to fully explore this because it does seem like something has gone terribly awry. >> did you feel you were dealt with and directed in an honest manner? >> no, i don't. i didn't at all. you know, to me it was a scam from the beginning. looking back at it now, i just -- it was just a real
4:59 pm
poorly ran set up. right from the beginning. i mean even the payments, the modification payments you make, you think they were going chase bank and they weren't. i mean they went into a foreclosure immediately from when he signed up for this, which they didn't clue us in on either. you know it's a mess. i can't believe it's legal. >> senator, briefly, what has to happen to get the american people a real investigation into the relationship between the banks, the treasury and these programs? >> well, we got to pursue it in the senate banking committee. we now have enough stories from enough places that i think we can have a real exploration. it isn't just fixing hamp. we need to give lifeline bankruptcy power to bankruptcy judges to intervene. we need have mediation, mandatory mediation that crates a foreclosure firebreak. we need have a


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on